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Ball moved by wind moves another ball

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Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby 999Q » Sat May 21, 2016 7:27 pm

Two balls are at rest. Ball A is moved by a gust of wind and moves ball B. Does ball B have to be replaced? It has not been moved by wind or an outside agent.

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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby Doug » Sat May 21, 2016 8:53 pm

18-1/7

.... if an object being moved by the wind moves a ball, the object is an outside agency in the circumstances
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby 999Q » Sat May 21, 2016 9:39 pm

Thanks Doug,
So, in this circumstance A's ball is an outside agency and B's ball must be replaced.
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby Chippings » Sat May 21, 2016 11:21 pm

Although I agree that B's ball must be replaced --- A's ball is not an outside agency in match play.
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby Chippings » Mon May 23, 2016 11:04 am

999Q
What would be more challenging is if both balls were on the green when this incident happened and the prior circumstances leading up to the balls being at rest?
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby 999Q » Mon May 23, 2016 11:30 am

Chippings,

OK I will bite! I cannot see how, in match play or in stroke play, the ruling would be different if both balls were on the putting green when the wind blew one of them into the other causing it to move, or why the circumstances that led to the balls being at rest on the putting green would have any effect on the ruling.

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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby anyclues » Mon May 23, 2016 2:15 pm

My understanding is that if a ball that was at rest then rolls and hits another ball, there is no PS and the ball is played as it lies and replace the moved ball. I think the reason is that the ball striking another ball rule only applies after a stroke at the ball, and that applies to both balls involved. I am new to golf rules so probably out of my depth and certainly outside my comfort zone.
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Tue May 24, 2016 2:21 am

Suggest refer D18-3b/2.
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby Chippings » Tue May 24, 2016 11:38 am

Ok. I was being a little mischievous when responding to 999Q query regarding a ball moved by wind after being at rest.
The scenario I envisaged was that B's ball was at rest on the green after ,let's say a chip from off the green, but the ball was not near the hole and remained un- lifted.
A had then putted from on the green and his ball came to rest .
A gust of wind then moved A's ball which rolled some distance and struck B's ball.
I remember that balls being moved by wind , after being at rest , produced a lively discourse last time and 999Q question seemed a natural progression.
I recall that Wendy and Doug had some definitive views on the matter !
As it has been a little quiet on the forum recently a review of this old chestnut seemed appropriate .
Have fun!
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Wed May 25, 2016 8:06 pm

I assume you are back to a stroke play event. I have difficulty in accepting that in R 19-5 a, if a ball putted on the green comes to rest and subsequently moves solely because of the wind and ends up striking another ball at rest on the green, a player incurs 2PS. I always understood that the reason for the penalty was to discourage players from using another ball on the green as a back-stop. My personal opinion is that R 19-5a refers to instances where a ball struck on the green hits another ball on the green before it has come to rest. I accept that it is after a stroke but really it is after a stroke and come to rest and then started to move again with nothing whatsoever to do with the original stroke. The movement by the wind could easily be two minutes after the original stroke.
If the ball had stopped without striking B's ball, and then B putted and it came to rest about a foot away from A's ball. A's ball starts to move due to the wind and it strikes B's ball. Would you apply a penalty to A because his ball was after a stroke? No doubt the other camp will launch an attack very soon so over and out and turn off time.
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Re: Ball moved by wind moves another ball

Postby MikeH » Wed May 25, 2016 11:36 pm

Some of you may well know that in NZ we have had a series of strong earthquakes and over the years quite a few serious ones. At the last NZ Women's Open in February we had a 5.7 quake on the course. Fortunately the group I'm with are only half way down the first fairway, however we did have 'rolling' fairways and greens, by rolling I mean visibly moving undulations.
http://www.golf.com/unfazed-quake-lydia ... ens-open-0 amazingly all the players continued as though nothing had happened.

If a ball at rest moves due to earthquake undulations there is no penalty and play from it's new position. Like Adrian I cannot see that after a stroke on the green in S/P and the ball which was at rest subsequently moves due to an earthquake and strikes another ball at rest on the green the player incurs a 2SP under R19-5a. Surely the ball was not in motion after a stroke [as it is now at rest] it was in motion due to undulation of the earth's surface.
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