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Help with Rule 20-3c

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Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby dormie1360 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:33 pm

It seems like I never see players (TTG) place a ball after an outside agency has moved the ball. What makes a spot not determinable? I assume the player doesn't receive accurate enough information as to where the ball originally lay. What would be considered accurate enough information that would allow the player to place his ball?

Edit: When I say accurate, I mean reliable. If a gallery member points to a spot on the ground and says the ball was "there". Do you ask, is that the "exact" spot? Do you assume they don't know the exact spot?

Thanks.
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Re: Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby Johanna » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:14 am

John, I once placed a ball in a bunker. The footmarks from the crow and the slight hollow in the sand showed the spot exactly where my ball had been lying before the crow stole it. Otherwise one has to be very close to the spot to know the exact spot, and I don't think a spectator standing 20 meter away knows for sure, or for that matter an opponent who kicked the ball accidentally during a search.
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Re: Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby Doug » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:01 pm

My feeling also
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Re: Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby dormie1360 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:55 pm

Johanna wrote:John, I once placed a ball in a bunker. The footmarks from the crow and the slight hollow in the sand showed the spot exactly where my ball had been lying before the crow stole it. Otherwise one has to be very close to the spot to know the exact spot, and I don't think a spectator standing 20 meter away knows for sure, or for that matter an opponent who kicked the ball accidentally during a search.


Doug wrote:My feeling also


Thanks for the replies. A ball being kicked was one of the scenarios I was thinking of.

I think a light bulb just went on...... thinking about 18-2a, I guess I was always visualizing the player, who moved his ball, placing his ball when replacing it TTG. But 20-3c still governs, so in the case of a player not seeing his ball and kicking it , when complying with R18 he would most likely have to drop it?
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Re: Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby Johanna » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:25 pm

John, chances are that if someone accidentally kicked the ball during search, he/she hasn't seen the exact lie or spot. In that case I'd say: "Drop the Ball".
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Re: Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby dormie1360 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:30 am

Johanna wrote:John, chances are that if someone accidentally kicked the ball during search, he/she hasn't seen the exact lie or spot. In that case I'd say: "Drop the Ball".


Thanks Johanna.

Now if winter would just end!! -22C in Kentucky tonight with 9 inches of snow on the ground. I won't be kicking any wayward tee shots for a while. I hope Breda is more hospitable.
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Re: Help with Rule 20-3c

Postby Johanna » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:44 pm

Hi John,

It is wet here but +9C. Many courses in the area are waterlogged but the days are getting longer, and life feels good after a mug of hot pea-soup loaded with slices of smoked beef sausage!
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