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LCP on the Putting Green

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LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Mr. Bean » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:43 am

Is it allowed to have Lift, Clean & Place (i.e. Preferred Lies) on the Putting Green? The specimen of that LR seems to be a bit contradictory (through the green vs. course).
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Doug » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:49 pm

I don't know the definitive answer but given the intention is to "promote fair play or help protect the course", under what circumstances would you see the committee needing to use the LR?

However, the putting green is mown to a height less than that of the fairway, so the words seem not to present a restriction.
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Mr. Bean » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:02 pm

Doug wrote:I don't know the definitive answer but given the intention is to "promote fair play or help protect the course", under what circumstances would you see the committee needing to use the LR?

However, the putting green is mown to a height less than that of the fairway, so the words seem not to present a restriction.


Well, the specimen of preferred lies (app. I, Part B.4.c) says:

'A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green'

And the note:

'Note: “Closely-mown area” means any area of the course, including paths
through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.'

Which is it, TTG or Course? Is Putting Green included or not?

It just feels a bit strange to forbid players to smooth spike marks on the Putting Green and at the same time let them place their ball 15 cm (or more!) away from the spot it ended up.

I'm good with all things promoting smooth play, but I am just wondering where is the limit and who exactly decides the limits if not the Rules of Golf?
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby regole » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:54 pm

Sorry Mr. Bean but I see her very easier.
When the ball lies on a putting green Lift & Clean is coded by a rule, the 16-1b. We also know that a Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. So, imho, the basic rule prevails over local rule.
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Mr. Bean » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:43 am

regole wrote:Sorry Mr. Bean but I see her very easier.
When the ball lies on a putting green Lift & Clean is coded by a rule, the 16-1b. We also know that a Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. So, imho, the basic rule prevails over local rule.


But Regole, Preferred Lies TTG already modifies the Rules of Golf as it is, i.e. it overrides Rule 18. Similarly LC&P on the Putting Green overrides R16-1b.

LC&P is sometimes used on Putting Green when the surface is in a poor condition but I just started to wonder the specimen Local Rule as there is a clear contradiction in the text, as I pointed out earlier.
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Mr. Bean » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:47 am

Doug wrote:I don't know the definitive answer but given the intention is to "promote fair play or help protect the course", under what circumstances would you see the committee needing to use the LR?


When the greens have craters it is very difficult to make a decent putt from the bottom of such crater. Also there are so many of them that defining them as GUR is impracticable. This just happened here in one of the competitions of our national tour.

Doug wrote:IHowever, the putting green is mown to a height less than that of the fairway, so the words seem not to present a restriction.


It is indeed, but it is not Through the Green:
'A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green'
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Doug » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:37 am

A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green

This seems to be pretty flexible. I gather the PGA are back to their old ways of ignoring the restriction 'closely mown'.
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby sui generis » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:42 pm

Doug, it's not so much the PGA as it is that travelling circus, the PGA Tour. The show must go on ... we have Buicks and Viagra to sell to the TV couch potatoes! ;)
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:51 pm

Doug wrote:I don't know the definitive answer but given the intention is to "promote fair play or help protect the course", under what circumstances would you see the committee needing to use the LR?

However, the putting green is mown to a height less than that of the fairway, so the words seem not to present a restriction.


The definition of through the green excludes both the tee and the putting green of the hole being played.
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby Doug » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Yes, I realised that just before I read Mr Bean's reply but was too late to amend my post. I plead holiday fatigue.
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Re: LCP on the Putting Green

Postby sui generis » Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:58 pm

Doug wrote:Yes, I realised that just before I read Mr Bean's reply but was too late to amend my post. I plead holiday fatigue.


Ha, you're the third or fourth guy out there using that excuse! :lol:
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