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2 PS or DQ?

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2 PS or DQ?

Postby Mr. Bean » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:53 pm

Stroke play. A's ball is lying on the putting green, B's is lying just outside the green. A's ball is on B's line of play.

B asks A to mark and lift his ball as it is interfering B's play but A refuses.

What is the penalty and under which Rule?

(I have my own opinion but I am puzzled about something that I will bring out should it be necessary)
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby regole » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:29 pm

Mr. Bean wrote:What is the penalty and under which Rule?



Mr. Bean

DQ under rule 3-4 :wink:
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Johanna » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:45 am

@ Mr. Bean

or 2 penalty strokes under Rule 22-2 :?:
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Doug » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:51 am

Johanna

It has been said that there is no penalty under 22-2 because the rule doesn't specifically say the player must lift it (or play it).

I can't remember if the RBs have ever made a comment.

Which is why I would resort to 3-4.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Mr. Bean » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:56 pm

Doug wrote:Johanna

It has been said that there is no penalty under 22-2 because the rule doesn't specifically say the player must lift it (or play it).


Well, that is my precise problem. In R3-4 it is specifically said that a player refusing to comply with the rights of another player is DQ'd so in my mind there is no other ruling that DQ. It would make no sense at all if a player would have to play with a ball on his line of play.

But.... in what kind of situations a player is in breach of R22 incurring 2 PS's ? I have no clue and that is why I brought this up.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby regole » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:22 pm

Mr. Bean wrote:
But.... in what kind of situations a player is in breach of R22 incurring 2 PS's ? I have no clue and that is why I brought this up.


Ball lifted when another ball is in motion. See Note to 22-1 and 22-2.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Mr. Bean » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:09 pm

regole wrote:
Mr. Bean wrote:
But.... in what kind of situations a player is in breach of R22 incurring 2 PS's ? I have no clue and that is why I brought this up.


Ball lifted when another ball is in motion. See Note to 22-1 and 22-2.


Good point. I was under the impression that this is already covered by another Rule but maybe I am mistaken.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Doug » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:37 pm

Mr. Bean wrote: I was under the impression that this is already covered by another Rule but maybe I am mistaken.


Which rule covered the situation where someone moved a loose impediment (a divot he had just taken) away from his ball which was running back down a slope?
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby regole » Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:25 pm

Mr. Bean wrote:Good point. I was under the impression that this is already covered by another Rule but maybe I am mistaken.


Perhaps you confuse with rule 1-2 that was amended in 2008. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule is subject to that other Rule, not Rule 1-2. As our case.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Mr. Bean » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:04 pm

regole wrote:
Mr. Bean wrote:Good point. I was under the impression that this is already covered by another Rule but maybe I am mistaken.


Perhaps you confuse with rule 1-2 that was amended in 2008. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule is subject to that other Rule, not Rule 1-2. As our case.


I believe it was in 2012.

The Rule I was thinking about is 24-1:

When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.

A ball in play is an obstruction.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby RJM » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:21 am

Rule 23-1 covers loose impediments (divots) and prohibits their removal if that might influence a ball in motion.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby dormie1360 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:30 am

From a previous USGA school I have the general breach penalty as lifting ball while another ball is in motion (as mentioned) or failure to replace on correct spot. (R22-2 would be the applicable rule for 20-7c)
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Doug » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:30 am

RJM wrote:Rule 23-1 covers loose impediments (divots) and prohibits their removal if that might influence a ball in motion.

Of course, that was it.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby regole » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:24 am

Mr. Bean wrote:
I believe it was in 2012.




Obviously yes :wink: , although the substance does not change. You wanted to know in what situations we have breach to Rule 22.

Regards.
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Re: 2 PS or DQ?

Postby Mr. Bean » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:38 pm

It seems there is consensus that A is to be DQ'd under Rule 3-4.
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