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Directly attributable

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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Doug » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:28 pm

Exactly. The action was not necessary and was not an integral part of the process.
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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Ron » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:32 pm

Hi Barry,
Interesting as ever.

999Q wrote:Thank you Adrian, I agree. Anyone else?
Barry


FWIW, I respectfully do NOT agree. The player's foot caused the ball to move not the object being removed. Which is how I interpret the phrase "directly attributable to..." Hence R18-2 applies.

In support I refer you to D23-1/11. I hope it helps.

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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Doug » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:32 pm

clap
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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Q8 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:41 pm

Perhaps I am late and jumping straight into deep end, but anyway.

I bet everybody remembers how the ruling went in Ian Poulter's case, when Poulter dropped his marker on the ball while marking it. To me that was more "directly attributable to..." than accidentally kicking the ball while removing MO.
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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Ron » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:19 pm

Hi Q8, welcome to the forum. Better late than never :D

Q8 wrote:Perhaps I am late and jumping straight into deep end, but anyway.

I bet everybody remembers how the ruling went in Ian Poulter's case, when Poulter dropped his marker on the ball while marking it. To me that was more "directly attributable to..." than accidentally kicking the ball while removing MO.
.

I can see why it could be thus construed, but it is incorrect. Remember, the "specific act", in this instance, is to mark the position of the ball and D20-1/15 in fact uses these two very words as well. And the "directly attributable" element refers directly to the specific act of marking the ball.

D20-1/15 goes on to answer your incorrect interpretation by stating,,..." any accidental movement of the ball-marker which occurs before or after this specific act, such as dropping the ball or ball-marker, regardless of the height from which it was dropped, is not considered to be "directly attributable" and would result in the player incurring a penalty stroke".

I hope that clears it up for you.

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Re: Directly attributable

Postby dormie1360 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:22 pm

I asked about this one today. Directly Attributable means the same thing in R20 and R24. The movement of the ball must be attributed to the direct action allowed under the rule.

Slipping, etc., and causing the ball to move would be a penalty.
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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Q8 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:07 am

Ron wrote:D20-1/15 goes on to answer your incorrect interpretation by stating,,..." any accidental movement of the ball-marker which occurs before or after this specific act, such as dropping the ball or ball-marker, regardless of the height from which it was dropped, is not considered to be "directly attributable" and would result in the player incurring a penalty stroke".

I hope that clears it up for you.


Thanks, my mind was already cleared by the ruling in Ian's case. But before that I might have ruled the other way.

edit, but thank you for bringing up the Decision!
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Re: Directly attributable

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:13 pm

dormie1360 wrote:I asked about this one today. Directly Attributable means the same thing in R20 and R24. The movement of the ball must be attributed to the direct action allowed under the rule.

Slipping, etc., and causing the ball to move would be a penalty.


John,

Noted thanks. What I am not clear about is that R 24-1a it states that if the ball moves and it is directly attributable to the removal there is no penalty. There is no mention of it moving accidentally. The final sentence states otherwise R 18-2 applies. As there is no mention of accidental should one not refer to R18-2 which states before the bullet points that there is no penalty if a player [url]accidentally[/url] causes his ball to move in removing a moveable obstruction. I believe that if a player's foot on a steep slope slipped whilst he was in the process of lifting an IO it would be accidental. I accept that I am in a strict minority so I shall call time out any maybe I will change my mind.
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