Welcome
Welcome to golfrules

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!

Ball search

Use this forum to discuss hypos' and what meanings lie behind the rules. Owing to some unwanted visitors it is now necessary to register as a member to post any questions or answers you may have regarding the Rules of Golf.
once you have done that you will be able to post.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
We do not generally discuss H/cap questions but there is no harm in trying, someone on the forum may know the answer. For H/Cap questions WWW.handicapmaster.org is recommended.

Moderators: DC, Ron, Johanna

Ball search

Postby Chippings » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:49 am

Incident that occurred yesterday in a competition.

A,B, and C - - fellow competitors are looking for A's ball in bush after his 4th shot.
A had previously lost his titleist ball in a water hazard on the same hole and had replaced it with a Taylor made.
B spots a ball deep into the bush (in an unplayable position?) and without saying anything drags it closer with his club where he can now see it clearly and announces
" found a Taylor made with a blue line"

A ,forgetting he had changed his ball, answers NO and after a couple of minutes they give up the search and begin walking to the green when B Shows A the lovely new ball he had found.

A Realise that it is his ball.

Options available to A with /without additional penalties?
Any repercussions for B
Chippings
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:00 pm
Your location: Bristol

Re: Ball search

Postby MikeH » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:54 pm

At the point where A realises that the TaylorMade is his, was this still within the five-minutes search period?

If within the 5 minutes, he has identified his ball and must continue with it. [ no penalties unless he declares an unplayable after dropping/replacing]
If more than 5 minutes the ball is lost [Dec 27/5] 1 sp and proceed R27-1
He can of course invoke R27-1 at any time for a 1 sp

No penalties to B however sadly he doesn't get to keep the lovely new ball

IMHO of course
User avatar
MikeH
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:09 pm
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Your location: Nelson, New Zealand

Re: Ball search

Postby Johanna » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:35 am

I agree with MikeH clap
Johanna Collinge
User avatar
Johanna
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:20 am
Location: Breda, the Netherlands
Your location: Breda, the Netherlan

Re: Ball search

Postby Chippings » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:26 pm

Would the rulings be the same if A and B were playing match plY?
Chippings
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:00 pm
Your location: Bristol

Re: Ball search

Postby 999Q » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:52 am

I have not visited this forum for a little while, but on scanning recent posts I see that no-one has repled to Chippings last question. In match play, any conversation between the players after they gave up search and walked to the green would determine as to whether the hole had been conceded. It would appear that A had little chance of winning the hole, so I think that it is likely that it would have been. Obviously, B does not incur any penalty for moving A's ball (and pocketing it!) during search, Rule 18-3a.

Barry
999Q
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:08 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Your location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Ball search

Postby Chippings » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:50 am

999q
Thank you for your reply and I agree with your comments re concession.

However I would like your view on a distinction between 12-1 searching and 12-2 identifying.
The rules state that the opponent incurs no penalty if he moves the player's ball whilst searching (18-3).
Is there a time when searching finishes and identifying starts.
In the scenario the opponent had found a ball.
He then dragged the ball closer in order to identify.

Are these separate actions considered to be " searching " in the context of 18-3.

Are not rules 12-1 and 12-2 separate rules?
Would you consider picking up an opponents' ball to identify after finding a ball to be the same?
Thank you
Chippings
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:00 pm
Your location: Bristol

Re: Ball search

Postby RJM » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:33 pm

Imo, "searching" is over as soon as a ball is found. If the opponent moves that ball before it has been identified by the player, the opponent is liable to a one stroke penalty should the ball turn out to be his opponent's ball.
If an opponent picks up a ball to identify it and it is the player's ball, then the opponent incurs a one stroke penalty. Rule 12-2 is all about the player identifying the ball, not the opponent. Imo, any player cannot use the process in 12-2 to identify any ball but his own; it cannot be delegated.
RJM
 
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:09 pm

Re: Ball search

Postby 999Q » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:28 pm

Chippings and RJM,

I have to concede that you are correct within the letter of Rules 12-1 and 12-2, though personally, remembering that opponents in match play may choose to ignore such a breach, I would just thank my opponent for hooking out my ball and take my own penalty drop for ball unplayable.

Barry
999Q
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:08 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Your location: Dublin, Ireland


Return to Rules of Golf discussions and meanings

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron
suspicion-preferred