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Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

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Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby 999Q » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:40 am

Am I correct in deducing from Decision 20-1/7 that if a player's ball-marker is moved off its spot by an opponent's ball in motion, the opponent incurs a penalty of one stroke and the ball-marker must be replaced?

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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby Wendy » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:59 am

Barry,

I certainly don't read 20-1/7 to apply to a ball in motion. It's no different, IMHO, than a ball being moved by a ball in motion. In match play, no penalty. Replace the ball. Opponent's ball played from where it comes to rest.
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby 999Q » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:25 pm

Of course, R19-5. Silly me!
Thanks Wendy.
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Re: Ball-marker moved by fellow competitor's ball in motion

Postby MikeH » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:55 pm

Out of interest are we to deduce if this was stroke play there would be a 2sp?? assuming of course events occur on the green
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby 999Q » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:06 pm

Mike,

I am pleased that you have asked, because the same thought occurred to me after I posted, but I was too embarrassed to follow up :oops:

We know that the player's ball is out of play and that their ball-marker is not equipment, but if R19-5 is used to absolve an opponent from penalty in the circumstance of the OP, surely that means that in stroke play a fellow competitor would be penalised. I don't think so, but why not?

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Re: Ball-marker moved by fellow competitor's ball in motion

Postby MikeH » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:00 am

Barry, my precise same thoughts, however I'm trying to get my head around which Rule would apply to say not. We know in stroke play lifting a FC ball or marker incurs no penalty but a player's ball in motion striking a ball at rest [both on the green] does....so how does striking the marker differ??
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby Doug » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:08 am

Not a silly question but why are ball markers generally flat?
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby don » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am

Not a question that I have come across before, Just for the exercise I would like to solve this one.
Lets go back to the reason that there is a penalty in SP but not in MP, it is because a ball on the PG could be in a position to assist a FC. To protect the field from this the rules impose a penalty, in MP there is no need to protect the field as the opponent is on hand to protect himself by lifting his ball or asking for the ball to be lifted.
If there is an advantage to be gained from the ball striking a ball marker, in equity, I believe a penalty should be imposed. Not to forget that a ball marker could be a fairly large object that could be just as advantageous as a ball. may be daft to say but a ball marker could be another ball!!!!! ( Me and hyperbole again)
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby Chippings » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:38 pm

999q
Rule 19-5 does not apply to a ball in motion being deflected by a ball marker( Which meets the test of not being equipment).
The rule that does apply and confirms that there is no penalty is the first sentence of 19-1.
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby MikeH » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:51 pm

Agreed R19-1 deals with the ball being deflected by the ball marker...no issue. In the OP and then extended to s/play we question the fact that the ball marker is moved by a ball in motion. Sort of the opposite way round :-)
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Re: Ball-marker moved by opponents ball in motion

Postby regole » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:58 am

Chippings wrote:999q
Rule 19-5 does not apply to a ball in motion being deflected by a ball marker( Which meets the test of not being equipment).
The rule that does apply and confirms that there is no penalty is the first sentence of 19-1.


Agreed see D.20-1/17
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