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Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

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Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby 999Q » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:52 am

In stroke play, A chips from just of the putting green and his ball comes to rest close to the hole. He announces that he wishes to mark his ball, as it could assist B. As he walks towards the hole, B chips from off the putting green. Should B be disqualified under Rule 3-4 for refusing to comply with a Rule affecting A's rights; a) if his ball does strike A's ball, b) If his ball comes to rest some way away from A's ball?

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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Ron » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:38 am

Hi Barry,

It appears player B intentionally ( D3-4/1) denied A his right lift his ball. Accordingly, B is disqualified.
IMO, it is irrelevant whether the balls collided or not.

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Ron.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby dormie1360 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:18 pm

Agreed. See D3-4/1
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby 999Q » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:35 pm

Thanks. Now what should be the ruling be in similar circumstances in match play, assuming A makes a claim under R2-5? Would the ruling be the same if B's ball did not pass anywhere close to A's ball at rest?

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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Chippings » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:20 pm

B loses the hole - immaterial how close B's ball comes to A's ball.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby RJM » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:34 pm

Agree entirely. It is a "denial of rights" and the result of the stroke is totally irrelevant.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby 999Q » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:46 pm

Am I right to assume that the penalty is disqualification in stroke play and only loss of hole in match play, because in stroke play the breach could affect the rights of competitors other than the one player involved?

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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Doug » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:49 pm

That is my view.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Tiekie » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:06 am

If in stroke play on the putting green, A asks B to mark his ball.
B refuses ( He is therefor in for a DQ) His ball is still lying on green.
A putts and hits B's ball (now an ouside agency?)
A must now play his ball as it lies without penalty?
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Doug » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:05 pm

Yes, the ball is not a ball in play. 19-5.

However, in a 4BBB match the player is only DQd for the hole so the ball is equipment. 19-3 applies.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Tiekie » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:08 pm

Thanks!
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Chippings » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:22 pm

Doug
I don't believe your explanation is quite correct

Doug wrote:Yes, the ball is NOT a ball in play. 19-5.

However, in a 4BBB match the player is only DQd for the hole so the ball is equipment. 19-3 applies.


The ball is in play and that is WHY 19-5 applies.

However the Committee would waive the 2 stroke penalty (19-5) to A under equity .

In match play the ball is not equipment. It is still a ball in play and the opponent ( his ball) would be disqualified from the hole.As the breach would be considered to adversely affect A . ,the opponent's partner would also be disqualified from the hole.
Similar to dec30-3f/11.

Tickle--- you are correct in that B will be subject to disqualification.
However as this will probably occur at the end of the round the f/c play will always retain the same status until such time disqualification occurs.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby RJM » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Doug wrote:Yes, the ball is not a ball in play. 19-5.

However, in a 4BBB match the player is only DQd for the hole so the ball is equipment. 19-3 applies.


I don't think the ball is equipment, it is a ball he has played at the hole being played - see definition of equipment.
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Re: Rule 22-1 and Rule 3-4

Postby Doug » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:24 pm

Thanks for the correction with which I agree (of course :wink: ).
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