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Marker's responsibility

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Marker's responsibility

Postby Chippings » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:50 pm

6-6d/10 Competitor Correctly Advised by Fellow-Competitor That He Incurred Penalty Disagrees and Fails to Include Penalty in His Score
Q.A, in ignorance of the Rules and with the concurrence of B, his marker, improved the area in which he was to drop a ball by repairing a divot hole. Subsequently, C, a fellow-competitor, advised A that he (A) was in breach of Rule 13-2. A disagreed, failed to settle the doubtful point with the Committee at the end of the round and returned his score card without including a two-stroke penalty for a breach of Rule 13-2.

Before the close of the competition, C advised the Committee of the incident. Should A be disqualified under Rule 6-6d?


In the above decision A is correctly disqualified.


How should B be treated - -- if he was also aware of C 's conversation with A and A's subsequent lack of action- even if he thought A was correct ?
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby anyclues » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:47 pm

B should also be DQ for a breach of R 1-3 imho. I think dec. 1-3/6 supports this.
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby RJM » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:41 pm

Imo, nothing should be done to B. C is not a referee, and there was no certainty in the ruling until the Committee made their determination. Also, if there were to be any consequence to B in the initial situation, it would have been noted in the answer to the Decision.
Of course, it B had knowingly signed the card to give B an advantage, it's a different situation.
Last edited by RJM on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby Doug » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:46 pm

No penalty for B. As RJM says, the breach is not confirmed until the committee says so.
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby Q8 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:08 pm

As the marker part is sorted, I guess, addition regarding the player, from the Decision:

As C pointed out to A that he had proceeded incorrectly and A took no action to check whether he had incurred a penalty before returning his score card, A is deemed to have known that he had incurred a penalty.

The same result would occur if, for any reason, a competitor were to be uncertain as to whether he had proceeded correctly or incurred a penalty.


Seems like a doubt (and a claim) from FC moves the burden of proving "not-quilty" to player. So the player can not say that he was not warned.
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby Chippings » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:23 pm

Chippings wrote:6-6d/10 Competitor Correctly Advised by Fellow-Competitor That He Incurred Penalty Disagrees and Fails to Include Penalty in His Score
?


The heading for this decision specifically refers to the interaction between competitor and fellow competitor.
In fact there is nothing in the question which states that marker B is privy to or aware of any of the conversation details between A and C or of any possible breach of the rules.

It was with this possible lack of information ,in mind, that I introduced in my scenario :
Chippings wrote:.
How should B be treated - -- if he was also aware of C 's conversation with A and A's subsequent lack of action- even if he thought A was correct ?


A was disqualified for not including a confirmed penalty Because '------
HE WAS DEEMED TO KNOW THAT HE HAD INCURRED IT
On the basis of the following two REASONS namely:-
(1) C pointed out that he had proceeded incorrectly. AND
(2) he took no action to check with the Commmittee

Surely as B was also aware of the two reasons quoted above he must also be deemed to know that A had incurred a possible penalty.
First paragraph of dec33-7/9 states:
"The responsibility for knowing the rules lies with all players. In stroke play the player and his marker have an explicit responsibility fot the correctness of the player's score card."
---------------------

B , who is responsible for protecting the rest of the field , has failed in fulfilling his responsibilities as marker in the ABOVE GIVEN CIRCUMSTANCES
As Q8 has stated
Q8 wrote:Seems like a doubt (and a claim) from FC moves the burden of proving "not-quilty" to player. So the player can not say that he was not warned.


And I submit that the above statement also applies to the conduct of the marker. :?:
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby Doug » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:18 pm

And if B was not a FC?
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Re: Marker's responsibility

Postby Chippings » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:22 pm

Doug- ------- An ""interesting " comment is my description :-
But If B was not a competitor or fellow competitor ( I.e not a player) then the ruling is simple.
No ruling is required for B-- as such a fact as no bearing on this scenario.

It would be more helpful to state what B's status 'WAS' rather than to state what It 'WAS NOT' !!
And then Perhaps you can start a new discussion topic on the subject of marker's eligibility ,etc.
I would commence by stating that if marker B was A's wife then a divorce seems a good starting place for the rules committee to suggest!. :mrgreen:
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