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Changing options

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Changing options

Postby Divot » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:20 pm

Good morning,
A player's ball ends up in a bunker situation where he will be trying to drop in maximum available relief because of casual water. On the drop the ball first hits outside the bunker. The player realizes he must drop again. Would it now be within the rules to change options and take the one stroke penalty to drop outside the bunker?
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Re: Changing options

Postby Doug » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:33 pm

See 18-2/12.5
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Re: Changing options

Postby Chippings » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:01 pm

Doug
Divot said change options - I don't think he meant change rules.
18-2/12.5 does not apply to his question.
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Re: Changing options

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:44 am

See D 20-2a/6
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Re: Changing options

Postby RJM » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:52 am

I think 20-6/2 is the applicable Decision, and the player would be permitted to change options.
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Re: Changing options

Postby Ron » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:03 am

Hi Divot,
I agree with RJ.
IMO,there is NO re-drop issue, per se, in the scenario you present since the ball when dropped did not touch any person or the equipment of any player. Please see opening sentence of the second paragraph of R20-2a, supported by the last paragraph of R20-2a i.e. "A ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course where the applicable Rule requires it to be dropped. If it is not so dropped, Rules 20-6 and 20-7 apply".
Accordingly, the player may correct his error, without penalty,as provided by R20-6 and, if he so wishes, proceed under penalty of one stroke as prescribed by R25-1b(ii)(b) by dropping the ball outside the bunker, analogous to D20-6/2 cited by RJ, and D20-6/5.

Regards,
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Re: Changing options

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:03 pm

It appears that my post a couple of hours ago has gone astray. D 25-1b/7 seems to be more like the original post as both relate to casual water and dropping outside of the bunker instead of inside it.
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Postby Ron » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:37 pm

Hi Adrian,
They are similar but, apologies for my lack of grasp, how does it assist you in answering the question, posed by Divot, re being allowed to change relief options or not?

Regards,
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Re: Changing options

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:25 pm

Ron,

The last sentence of R 20-2b states that A ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course where the applicable rule requires it to be dropped. Rules 20-6 and 20-7 apply. In both the OP and in D 25-Ib/7 this was the case. The answer to D 25-1b/7 states that the player is required to drop the ball in the bunker but I accept that the question of switching rules is not mentioned.

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Re: Chaning myging options

Postby Ron » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:40 pm

Hi Adrian,
Your initial post cited D20-2a/6 does not apply to the original post. Hopefully, for the reasons I stated in my initial reply to Divot.
However, happily, your latest post, by quoting from the same Rules passage as I did in my initial reply to Divot, except it should have read R20-2b not 2a as I incorrectly typed, we now appear to be in agreement, notwithstanding your initial Decision reference, the player in the original post CAN change options i.e. the answer to the question asked by Divot in his original post as per D20-6/2 cited by RJ :D

Regards,
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Re: Changing options

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:02 pm

Ron,
I agree that my mentioning D 20-2a/6 was not applicable. I am afraid that I am not totally convinced that the option can be changed in the OP as both the OP and D 25-1b/7 are essentially the same and in that decision the ball has to be dropped in the bunker. Why does this not also apply to the OP?

Regards,
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Re: Changing options

Postby Ron » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:01 pm

Adrian
That is not strictly correct. The ball must be dropped in the bunker if the player has NOT invoked R20-6.
If he did invoke R20-6, he would be able to change options. please see D20-6/2.

Does it help?
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Re: Changing options

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:36 pm

Ron,

In D 25-1b/7 the player has invoked R 20-6 and it states that the player is required to drop the ball in the bunker. As stated in a previous post the question of switching rules is not mentioned and therefore this may be the reason why the OP and the decision appear to be different.
Regards,
Adrian
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Re: Changing options

Postby regole » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:41 pm

Agree Ron and RJM

The player according to Rule 20-6, having-dropped in a wrong place, in the correct his mistake can change the initial option of the rule that is proceeding. By analogy, in addition to D. 20-6/2, see also D. 20-6/5.
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Re: Changing options

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:39 pm

Ron wrote:Adrian
That is not strictly correct. The ball must be dropped in the bunker if the player has NOT invoked R20-6.
If he did invoke R20-6, he would be able to change options. please see D20-6/2.

Does it help?
Regards,
Ron


RON,

After I sent my latest reply to you I finally realized that D 25-1b/7 stated that the ball must be dropped in the bunker, but only if he did not change his option, which as you quite rightly pointed out, he was entitled to do.
One lives and learns.
Regards,
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Re: Changing options

Postby Ron » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:08 pm

Hi Adrian,
Very pleased we are now in agreement. :D
Regards,
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Re: Changing options

Postby JMC » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:49 am

Adrian
"One lives and learns."

If you knew Adrian, that happens to me every day!
Regards – JMC
:D
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