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ready golf

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ready golf

Postby jose luis » Tue May 24, 2016 11:50 pm

In a tournament (shot gun start) a group of players agreed before teeing off to play ready golf. This was unnecessary since the course was not going to be crowded.
I am aware of D 10-2c/2 and of the fact that the new R&A guidelines on pace of play encourage this type of playing.
My question: Since there were not instructions from the Committee to play ready golf and the field's pace of play was good, could the players be dq under R.1-3 (Agreement to waive the Rules)?
Thank you
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Re: ready golf

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Wed May 25, 2016 1:22 am

I do not believe there is any reason why they should be DQ. The agreement before the round is what they seem to be encouraging and it is what I am going to try and introduce at our club.
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Re: ready golf

Postby MikeH » Wed May 25, 2016 1:29 am

Jose... From the manual

4.7e 'Ready Golf'

As referenced in the Management Practices section above, playing “ready golf” is permissible in stroke play and can improve pace of play. Even if the management at a course has not made a request for players to play “ready golf”, players in stroke play can agree to do so.
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Re: ready golf

Postby MikeH » Wed May 25, 2016 1:49 am

No doubt in the next Rules of Golf update we will see considerable changes to both R10-2a and R10-2b.

Whilst we can all juggle around and get to our balls quickly and play ready golf, and yes it will probably speed up the round, I still have my concerns that the slow player in your group or club will more than likely still remain the slow player, the rest of us will simply play in a way that accommodates him better. Just MO
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Re: ready golf

Postby jose luis » Wed May 25, 2016 11:37 pm

Thank you for our answers
My interpretation of the Manual is that is mainly meant for the Management of golf courses and less for competition golf; perhaps the R&A could shed a bit of light here.
"even if the Managment at a course has not made a request .....players may agree to ready golf" (page 47 of the Manual). Being, as I am, an old timer and certified Rules Official, I cannot condone in tournament play the use of ready golf, and if a group of players agree to avoid R.10-2, I would question the motives. This practice as you kind of point out, renders R.10-2 mot and academic and could be removed from the Rules Section and included under Section 1 Etiquette.
The playing out of turn practice is in itself allowed by the Rules on a case to case basis, D.10-2c/2 "“A and B agree to play out of turn on hole # 10 to save time….” but I do not see this a blanket authorization to play the whole round, even less if there is no reason (the pace of play at the course is good) to do so, otherwise our golf gurus would have provided in the Rules the practice of ready golf. Jose Luis
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Re: ready golf

Postby MikeH » Thu May 26, 2016 12:59 am

IMO the manual is intended as a guide for those clubs struggling with pace of play for mainly club days. A lot of common sense in the manual but I don't think we are going too see 'Ready Golf' on any hard cards in the near future.
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Re: ready golf

Postby John Young » Thu May 26, 2016 12:54 pm

IMO D.10-2c/2 does apply if players agree to play ready golf throughout a round. It is really just drawing attention to what R.10-2c says and making it clear that there's no R.1-3 issue.
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Re: ready golf

Postby jose luis » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:56 am

Adrian M, MikeH, John Y. Thank you for your answers which if I understand correctly, you do not see grounds for dq. if players agree to waive R.10-2c. Please let me to go back to my question, agreement to play out of turn A group playing concurrently four ball stroke play and individual stroke play agree at the start of their game to play out of turn for no apparent reason, if the Rules condone such practice in stroke play, the players should not be dq under R.1-3 for breach of R.10.2c, however R.31-7 will dq the sides “Rule 10-2c Sides agree to play out of turn[/i]”. Furthermore Rule 32-2 will also dq the players for “[i]playing out of turn”, I guess it means, agreeing to play out of turn. In the first case, how should we rule?, shall we dq the players from the four ball and accept their score card for the individual stroke play?. It really makes no sense to me unless the players should also be dq in stroke play under R.1-3 for agreeing to breach R.10-2. In the second case R.32-2 (Stableford play), the players are dq not just from the hole where they have played out of turn but from the competition. What makes different, individual stroke play from four ball stroke play, or individual Stableford stroke play? What is the rationale behind this apparent contradiction?, It really escapes me. Your thoughts on this grey area of the Rules will be most appreciated
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Re: ready golf

Postby Doug » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:59 am

Note the words in bold.

If a competitor plays out of turn, there is no penalty and the ball is played as it lies. If, however, the Committee determines that competitors have agreed to play out of turn to give one of them an advantage, they are disqualified.
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Re: ready golf

Postby jose luis » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:04 am

Please bear with me, I am only trying to get into my thick head a clear idea of how to apply R.1-3 and R.10-2c.
Doug, yes, that is what R.10-2c says, but it does not answer my question, R.31-7 (sides agree to play out of turn) and R.32-2 (Playing out of turn) are very specific "if the players agree to play out of turn they will be dq", IMHO whether to give one another an advantage or for whatever reason, unfortunately there is not a Decision in the Decisions Book to clarify the issue. R.1-3 says (Agreeing to play out of turn in stroke play - see R.10-2), but it is silent on R.31 and R.32.
One last question, what should be the ruling in the concurrent four ball/individual example if the players say, have agreed to waive R.10-2c simply because they are used to play ready golf and they feel more confortable not keeping order of play?.
Thank you all.
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Re: ready golf

Postby Doug » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:20 am

Jl

31-7 is only saying the if one partner is DQd under 10-2, then the side is DQd.
32-2 is confirming that if the player is DQd under 10-2, then he is DQd from the competition.

BUT DQ under 10-2 only applies if the player has agreed to play out of order in order to confer an advantage to himself or another competitor (other than his partner).
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