Welcome
Welcome to golfrules

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!

Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Use this forum to discuss hypos' and what meanings lie behind the rules. Owing to some unwanted visitors it is now necessary to register as a member to post any questions or answers you may have regarding the Rules of Golf.
once you have done that you will be able to post.
Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.
We do not generally discuss H/cap questions but there is no harm in trying, someone on the forum may know the answer. For H/Cap questions WWW.handicapmaster.org is recommended.

Moderators: DC, Ron, Johanna

Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby 999Q » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:08 pm

This links to an interesting Rules situation relating to Zach Johnson not being sure if his ball in a bunker was lying next to a stone, or whether it was a tightly-packed clump of sand resembling a stone;

http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/news/pga-championship-zach-johnsons-rules-questions-first-round.

There was a Local Rule stating that stones in bunkers are movable obstructions. When asked about the object the referee confirmed that it was up to Johnson to make his own determination. He would obviously incur a penalty if he lifted the object and it turned out not to be a stone.

Does it follow that if Johnson asked a fellow competitor whether they thought the object was a stone and they replied with their opinion, both players would incur a penalty under Rule 8-1?

Barry
999Q
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:08 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Your location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby Chippings » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:35 pm

Absolutely Not.
Otherwise the player would have been penalised for asking the referee.
Chippings
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:00 pm
Your location: Bristol

Re: Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby Doug » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:39 pm

I would say not. It is really about the rules not playing a shot.
User avatar
Doug
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Wetherby, UK
Your location: UK

Re: Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby RJM » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:46 am

The player is responsible for his own actions. If the object is not a stone and he moves it, there is a penalty. Nobody elses' opinion matters. A referee must not give opinions, only provide the Rules information (information on the Rules is not advice). If I were the referee I would just tell the player that the local Rule deems stones to be immovable obstructions; if you move it and it's not a stone, you have breached the Rules.
RJM
 
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:09 pm

Re: Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:30 pm

stones to be immovable obstructions; if you move it and it's not a stone, you have breached the Rules.

I believe you meant to write moveable and not immovable.
Adrian Mackenzie
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:18 pm
Your location: SP Brazil

Re: Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby Adrian Mackenzie » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:38 pm

Does it follow that if Johnson asked a fellow competitor whether they thought the object was a stone and they replied with their opinion, both players would incur a penalty under Rule 8-1?

No - it is just like asking is the ball on the green, o.b. or in a hazard? If he had asked if he should treat it as a stone instead of a lump of sand then yes there would be penalties.
Adrian Mackenzie
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:18 pm
Your location: SP Brazil

Re: Stone or clump of sand in a bunker?

Postby RJM » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 pm

Adrian Mackenzie wrote:stones to be immovable obstructions; if you move it and it's not a stone, you have breached the Rules.

I believe you meant to write moveable and not immovable.


Yes I did, apologies for that glaring error!
RJM
 
Posts: 898
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:09 pm


Return to Rules of Golf discussions and meanings

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
suspicion-preferred