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Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:55 pm
by Divot
Good morning,
While the ball is in motion after a short putt another player without intent was too quick to replace the flagstick and deflected the putted ball away from the hole just as it was to fall in. What ruling?

Re: Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:58 pm
by Wendy
Decision 7-2/2. The player who replaced the flagstick is penalized 2 strokes. From your description it sounds as though the flagstick was in motion as it deflected the ball, so 19-1b applies and the stroke is cancelled. The ball must be replaced and replayed without penalty.

Re: Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:04 am
by Divot
I assume you mean 17-2/2 which would not apply as the flagstick holder was authorized. Why not 17-2 with the penalty on the player putting? It doesn't seem fair, but we all know golf isn't always fair. If 19-1b is to be used (which seems fair) the flagstick must be deemed to be a moving outside agency overriding 17-2. How do you support that argument?
Divot

Re: Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:10 am
by Colin L
How about this? The flagstick was not being attended and so 17-2 does not apply. The flagstick had already been removed as shown by the fact the other player was replacing it.

Re: Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:05 pm
by Wendy
Yes, I meant 17-2/2. I also assumed that the flagstick was not being attended.

Re: Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:43 pm
by Divot
If the flagstick is in someone's hand, it's hard to say it's not being attended. I'd like to find a way to avoid any penalty. 19-1 is probably the best bet.

Divot

Re: Quick flagstick

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:59 pm
by Thom
Very sad, and definitely unfair (the Rules strike again!), but a penalty to the player of 2SP under R17-3. Reasoning is Note 2 to R17-1, from which there is nowhere to hide. And player must play ball as it lies, per D17-3/2.
Note also that for R17-2 to be applicable the flagstick holder would have needed to attain control of the flagstick during the putting stroke or while the ball is in motion - which seems highly unlikely in this short putt case.
The good news is this problem goes away in January 2019.